Thursday, November 19, 2015

Refugees


There are people who hate us, who would like to destroy us based on who we are.  They struck in Paris last weekend, how profoundly sad.  Hate, masked as religion.  It is truly tragic.  And it appears that at least one of the criminals slipped into France as a refugee along with thousands of others.

I have never had to flee my home in fear of war, or threats to my safety.  I don't understand what it is like to be a true refugee.  My grandmother's family left England on the eve of World War I, they never talked about it and were all gone before I connected the dates to ask.  How sad.  Many of our ancestors came here as refugees, others fleeing poverty. The great melting pot of America was filled with people in search of a better life.

At last count 18 states have declared that they won't take in an Syrian refugees who are Muslim.   Ah, sorry, but immigration enforcement is done at the Federal level.  No state requires a passport for entry. States can't refuse to let someone cross the boarder based on national origin or religion.  Some of the more enlightened idiot governors have said, they will simply refuse to use government resources to help Syrian or Muslim refugees.  Um, the Civil Rights Act makes that illegal to discriminate based on religion or national origin.  If the state spends a penny and discriminates based on a protected class, they will be successfully sued.  It is stupid, hate filled political rhetoric, kind of like the hate filled rhetoric we are afraid of.

It is time to get religion out of politics.  The United States was not founded as a Christian nation, it was founded as a place of free exercise, including the non-exercise of religion. While the founders were primarily christian, there were also Jews, agnostics, atheists and others who fled here.  Don't forget, it was illegal in many states to be Catholic, until independence.  The founders knew all too well the toll that mixing religion and politics could cause.  When we read about the many wives of Henry the VIII, we tend to focus on the wives, the sex and the quest for an heir, what we overlook is the turmoil that changing a state religion caused.  It was a social disaster.

13 comments:

  1. "It is time to get religion out of politics. The United States was not founded as a Christian nation"

    RAMEN, BRO! may the flying spaghetti monster touch all the right-wing religious nutjobs with his noodly appendages and cure them of their affliction!

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  2. You need to go back to school and get a better education. Of course America was founded as a Christian nation. The references to God are self evident:
    http://www.internationalcopsforchrist.com/proof-that-america-was-founded-as-a-christian-nation/
    And of course the governors can stop refugees from coming and living in their states. Get a life! And a grip. Before you spew out rhetoric, get the facts. States aren't sitting ducks waiting at the whim of President Obama.
    By the way, what state do you live in? I'm sure we can sway someone to let those refugees come and live near you.
    Most everyone in America were immigrants at one time or another. All we are asking is that these newly immigrants be vetted properly.

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    1. She is correct. We were not founded as a Christian nation. Many of the founders were theists. Look it up. The notion of God then was not the same as today. Theists and many other folk did not want to use God to ram unpopular ideas down throats. The radicals who did so were tolerated as long as they did not try to force it on others.

      Just because "God" is in a document does not mean anything if "God" is translated using the popular notion of God.

      I could write ten pages on this subject.

      Immigrants who came before now at least really wanted to live in America not destroy us. The Koran allows the followers to lie to the infidels." Infidel" includes you! Yes, some are being persecuted, but when push comes to shove, they are Muslims first and will join the jihadists to destroy you. The Hispanic folk love America and want it to continue. Maybe they want the economic benefits. But, if I lived in Central America, I would probably want to live here and rear my children here. Muslims want to destroy America. You check your facts.

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    2. Linda, we can debate the Judeo Christian thing ad infititum. But this much is true, right now:
      The number of Americans who identify as Christian has fallen nearly eight percentage points in only seven years, according to a new survey. Pew Research Center found that 71% of Americans identified as Christian in 2014 - down from 78% in 2007.May 12, 2015
      In any event, America is still predominately Christian. Many of our laws were based on the bible, so yes, technically, America was founded on Christianity.
      I'm surprised you think otherwise. But we should get together and discuss it. Your knowledge is a welcome relief and I love it! Who knew???

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    3. Cindi, you are an ignorant, brainwashed fool! I have a PhD in history, thank you, and you make the mistake of thinking any mention of God by the Founders is a reference to Christianity. Most often "God" was used as "code" to mean "no king," as in "In God we trust (and in no king)." Rather than rely on right-wing, Christo-fascist propaganda for what you think is "history," you might want to look at the plain words regarding the non-establishment of religion in the founding documents. You might even try reading the Federalist Papers - if having your nose glued to Fox News hasn't robbed you of your literacy.. Oh, but I've fallen into "spewing rhetoric," haven't I? Well, Id rather do that than spew the stupidities, ignorance, and outright lies that you do. Go soak your head!

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    4. PS: I don't know where you get the idea that our laws were founded on the Bible. They are based on English common law. It always astounds me that some people think just because we outlaw murder, we must have gotten that from the 10 Commandments. Like no non-Christian society ever did that, or that societies more ancient than the Hebrew scriptures didn't. So bloody stupid!

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  3. David,
    Looks like you stepped on a hornets' nest here (smile). One aspect of the founding of our country that is often overlooked is that not only was this country founded on "freedom of religion" but "freedom FROM religion." I am so sick of the Christian extremists trying to take over our government and institution a religious test.
    Ron

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    1. The most comments I have had in a long time. Should I do this again?

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  4. I always think of 9-11 and the Boston Marathon tragedies. We should think carefully before welcoming strangers into our country. Refugees nowadays aren't as innocent as our ancestors were.

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    1. Our ancestors... you mean the innocent Mafiosi among the Sicilian immigrants, or perhaps the provisional IRA among the Irish? There have always been bad people among immigrants, as with any group of people. That is simply a human reality.

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  5. Well you sure stirred up something with this post Travel! Lol. Nothing gets people more fired up than politics and religion. Ha! Always enjoy your posts. I always read but don't always get to comment. :)

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  6. Realy, I don't think such harsh words for Cindi were in order. Ignorance is a condition that is easily cured! Yeah, I was going to note the English Common Law aspect of our country. The Mafioso were different than these terrorist immigrants. Really, it is unfair to lump them in with people who want to destroy all that is decent and good, calling us infidels.

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  7. Yep, I agree with Ron that you stepped in a hornets nest. All one needs to do is actually read the constitution (Amendment 1, ratified in 1791) to find that our government cannot establish a religion, any religion. To prevent refugees from coming to our shores and finding safe haven is appalling. Thank you for your sane words.

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